Posts by Sea Breeze

14

Do you find Watchtower as Looney as Jim Jones?

by Foolednomore in

jw
friends

forbid the universe for the mass suicide of many.

but with the no blood policy, the constant call to be loyal to the org no matter how looney it seems, just very dangerous to any normal thinking person.

or just crazy stupidity?.

Sea Breeze

I'm not sure you'll get agreement on how many may have died due to the WTS teachings, and whether it's a net loss of life vs those they help prevent.
But the JWs are not at the same level of "cult" as what most people imagine a cult to be ("heavens gate" type).

Only 909 people died at Jonestown, a third of them children. The Watchtower is an apex predator killing machine compared to them. Think about it:

1. Deaths due to blood ban

2. Deaths and suicides due to drug overdoses to try and deal with the pain of lost family

3. Imprisonments due to loss of trust in authority figures (Satan runs to governments)

4. Deaths and suicides due to depression

5. Deaths and suicides due to alcoholism

6. Deaths due to rejecting National allegiances as appropriately allowed in Christianity.

7. Deaths due to organ transplant ban.

8. Deaths and suicides from the belief that when you die your sins are forgiven.

I watched the testimony of a young woman the other day (pioneer sister) who told the tale of what happened to her when she tried to leave the org. Her parents took her to therapist after therapist trying to figure out what was wrong with her. Finally they took her to a JW Psychiatrist who prescribed her powerful anti-schizophrenia medication.

It totally zonked her out. In one of her drug induced stupors, she asked her dad if he was proud of what he was doing to her. He admitted that it truly bothered him, but he didn't know what else to do. She escaped her home and moved in with a disfellowshipped aunt who was into new age stuff. Her adult son (cousin) then raped her. She would go to work early everyday just so she could have a quiet place to cry. She married the first guy who showed her some sympathy at work. You guessed it... more victimization and abuse in their marriage and eventual divorce, but now with two kids to care for. She eventually trusted in God as a Christian and has since remarried to a wonderful man. Married 6 years now with one child of their own.

I know an unbaptized (and doubting) young man who was encouraged and pressured by his JW father to marry a newly separated (non-baptized JW) 16 year old girl when he was only 17. Her JW parents had previously allowed her to marry a convicted murderer, so that she wouldn't die at Armageddon for having sex outside of marriage. (She had sex with a school coach at 14 and they found out). Instead of seeing this as rape, the parents saw her as a fornicator and allowed her to marry her new boyfriend - an ex-convict biker she met in the neighborhood. She was only 14 when they married. Her new husband had shot his first wife in the face with a shotgun. The JW parents had to give written consent at this age for her to marry.

The young man eventually became a Christian, remarried and successfully raised two more sons who are excellent examples of character and citizenship. Marriage still in tact after 18 years.

Simon, I don't know if you were a born-in JW or not. But, I have noticed that there is usually a big difference in perception between the born-ins and others whose joined later than birth. 3rd and 4th gens have it the worst IMO.

134

How far do we get away from 1914

by PimoElder in

how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

Sea Breeze

Here's a graphical chart explaining what the WT has done to the New Covenant from a dispensational perspective.

Chart on New Covenant and Ages

“God...hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.” - 2 Cor. 5: 18-21 Christians preach primarily a “ministry of reconciliation”. The “good news of the kingdom” will mostly be preached during the Tribulation by the 144,000 believing Jews.

This explains why there was so much confusion when we went to people's doors. We were taught that we were living in a dispensation that had not gotten here yet.

JW's are preaching a future gospel - "the good news of the kingdom"

Christians on the other hand preach a particularly age-of-grace message - reconciliation.

134

How far do we get away from 1914

by PimoElder in

how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

Sea Breeze

SB, explain please how the rejection of the blood of the New Covenant as forced by wt on "the other sheep" (not taking the emblems) is related to the ongoing -or already ended- "times of the nations" . thanks.

Sure, no problem.

The bible divides human history into dispensations or time periods. The OT prophets could not see the age of grace that we have been living in since Pentecost. So, they wrote about the time period they were living in as well as the future Millennium reign. The Age of Grace was hidden from them - "great is this mystery of godliness". During this age a person could be considered godly (righteous and thus worthy of admission into God's family) by nothing more than child-like faith in the Resurrection of Jesus. There are many other fantastic promises made to this church-age group as well.

Jesus spoke to both groups. The groups are separated by time periods, nothing more.

By contrast, the Millennium age will be populated by the surviving nations after Jesus defeats the anti-christ and saves what is left of earth's population. This group has different promises made to them. Scriptures directed at them show that, they are not glorified, are not immortal, they sin and die during the Millennium. Obviously, church age believers have a very different experience according to the scriptures and the WT exploits people's ignorance of the end times. 2/3 of evangelicals hold the views I am describing in this post.

Scripture tells us to "rightly divide" the word of God. This of course implies that there will be those who will wrongly divide the word of God. Jesus warned:

For then shall be great tribulation...And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you... Behold, he is in the is in the secret chambers [invisible]; believe it not, For there shall arise false Christs...Behold, I have told you before[hand].

Because...

He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him - Rev. 1:7

So, theoretically if the the WT changes their view on the Gentile Times (Age of Law) ending around 1914 this would mean that the promises made effectual during the age of grace would still be available to "whosoever", including the average JW. The WT believes we have been in the Millennium age since 1914.

The entire purpose of the WT is to shut down the age of grace and thus deny salvation to millions, not to mention to create as many broken families and chaos as possible for those affected by WT policies along the way. If they can cause significant psychological/emotional damage for those who do leave, trusting won't even be possible for some.

"hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in" - Jesus

You can see a chart of biblical dispensations here.

15

The One Way Speed of Light Could Be Instantaneous

by Sea Breeze in

physics students learn the speed of light, c, is the same for all inertial observers but no one has ever actually measured it in one direction.

assuming that light travels the same speed in all directions is a convention, rather than an experimentally verified fact.

this really challenges what we think we know.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptn6ewhb27k&ab_channel=veritasium .

Sea Breeze

Good point waton:

Eerily like James 1 has it: "there is no variation or turning of the shadow "( the sundial) for the eternal deity. but: that is not true of the observer.

It definitely looks as if light was made specifically to be picked up by our retina. The way it travels as waves and collapses into particles upon observation is particularly astounding.

Earth orbit has 1000 light seconds diameter btw.

That's according to the round-trip measurement. The one way speed has yet to be measured. It could be up to half that. There is no way to tell the difference.

When Naturalism/Evolution/Millions of years became popular, the world was much simpler place. There were no dna, dinosaur soft tissue and blood cells, carbon 14 in diamonds (the world's hardest substance) Cells were just jelly-like blobs that divided and not made up of thousands of interdependent parts.... Etc. It all made sense back then - 150 years ago.

But science has shown the universe to be infinitely more complex and weirder than what previous generations could have imagined. It is certainly opposite of some hap hazard, non-directed explosion as naturalism dictates.

Many things are true, regardless of how different they may be to our common experience. The average person would not believe that a 100 + lb. blacksmith anvil could be made to float in a liquid. It would be described as a "miracle".

But, here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgS8XUYDCuY&ab_channel=HAPPENED

134

How far do we get away from 1914

by PimoElder in

how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

Sea Breeze

so it is clearly impossible to present any reasons for the abandonment or 1914 CE which marked the end of the Gentile Times and the birth of God's Kingdom.

The Gentile Times have not ended. They will end when Jesus comes back. (He 'aint back yet ..."every eye will see him")

This is the very core of WT error. But, they can never say that the Gentile Times are still going on because this is the fundamental rationale for rejecting the New Covenant "for forgiveness of sins" (Mt. 26: 27-28)

They will ride 1914 to their end.

15

The One Way Speed of Light Could Be Instantaneous

by Sea Breeze in

physics students learn the speed of light, c, is the same for all inertial observers but no one has ever actually measured it in one direction.

assuming that light travels the same speed in all directions is a convention, rather than an experimentally verified fact.

this really challenges what we think we know.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptn6ewhb27k&ab_channel=veritasium .

Sea Breeze

Distant starlight could be instantaneously displayed in real time on our retina. Wow! Apparently this has been known for over 117 years.

I believe that Physicists will one day have a "theory of everything" seamlessly integrating relativity, Newtonian laws and quantum mechanics. When they do, we will probably find out how particles can be in two places same time and how light travels as a wave until observed, and then collapses into a particle so it can be detected on our retina.

But, the bottom line is that we cannot know through experiment how long light from the stars has been traveling to reach us.

15

The One Way Speed of Light Could Be Instantaneous

by Sea Breeze in

physics students learn the speed of light, c, is the same for all inertial observers but no one has ever actually measured it in one direction.

assuming that light travels the same speed in all directions is a convention, rather than an experimentally verified fact.

this really challenges what we think we know.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptn6ewhb27k&ab_channel=veritasium .

Sea Breeze

Physics students learn the speed of light, c, is the same for all inertial observers but no one has ever actually measured it in one direction. Assuming that light travels the same speed in all directions is a convention, rather than an experimentally verified fact. This really challenges what we think we know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTn6Ewhb27k&ab_channel=Veritasium

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

Sea Breeze

But take a stand, hold them to account for a lie, or for their objectionable behavior and it's "bye bye"

Yes, this would clearly show a lack of remorse.

33

Response to "The Flood is Real, Because ..."

by Simon in

i remember one of the flowchart responses to people questioning the biblical flood was something along the lines that "every culture has a flood story".. of course, nearly everywhere has flooded at one time or another and we know there are minor floods and then there are the 1-in-1000 year kind of weather event, that tend to get a mention (anyone from the uk will still talk about the summer of '76, and that's probably nothing in comparison to a decent flood).. but the inference is that the flood must be real, because every culture has a flood story.. the best response is "now do dragons".. because apparently, nearly every culture also has a dragon legend.. does it mean dragons exist?

some desperate jw may show their ignorance by suggesting that man lived at the same time as dinosaurs and they are what the stories were based on.

fun fact: stegosaurus was a fossil when t-rex was alive for longer than it's been since t-rex has been a fossil to us - we're talking old, and no overlap (ignore the map in the cover of the old green bible).. do jws still even bother trying to defend the cray-cray aesop-fable kind of ot beliefs?.

Sea Breeze

FFGhost,

From what I understand, in the ancient Maya language every letter is pronounced. When you pronounce the Greek alphabet letters in order, it tells the story I posted above in the Mayan language. This would indicate that the Greek alphabet descended from Cara-Maya vocables, and not the other way around as standard history might suggest.

I don't believe Ripley's has ever been found to have falsified any of its claims.

Here's another reference. Pages 55 - 58.

18

A single Bible verse that explains everything—hope even to the disfellowshipped

by Abraham1 in

"through love and faithfulness sin is atoned for;.

through the fear of the lord evil is avoided.” (proverb 16:6, niv).

sin can be cancelled [yə·ḵup·par] by acts of goodness such as kindness [bə·ḥe·seḏ] and faithfulness, and sin can be avoided in loving remembrance [ū·ḇə·yir·’aṯ] of god.

Sea Breeze

"Through love and faithfulness sin is atoned for;
through the fear of the LORD evil is avoided.” (Proverb 16:6, NIV)

Abraham1,

You are making the same mistake the WT does. You are taking an OT scripture and applying it to a NT age, and thus making Christ sacrifice for us personally unnecessary.

When that scripture was written, Israelites already had a national contract with God mediated by Moses for the forgiveness of sins. The contract guaranteed the survival of the nation of Israel (its existence today is a glaring testimony to that fact); Within that legal umbrella an individual could be saved if they put faith in the vicarious sacrificial system to do what it claimed to do.

Even so, it was still the act of faith that saved a person and not the ritual itself. If a person gamed the system and used it as a "get out of jail free card", it wouldn't work. The rich man still found himself in hell in Jesus' account of him and the beggar Lazarus.

For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us - 1 Cor. 5: 7

In the Church Age, Jesus is the Passover lamb that was sacrificed in our place for our sin (not Adam's or anyone elses).

Just like in the previous contract, putting faith in anything else, even your own good deeds will be rejected. There is no fire insurance policy a person can buy under the NT contract. Everything has already been paid. Take it or leave it.